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Althea: Rebirth; We stopped keeping track a while ago
Topic Started: Mar 10 2010, 08:47:03 PM (1,790 Views)
Jeanesse
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No Pokeballs would be an interesting dimension to add, but that comes with the hindrance of Pokémon fainting. You're going to drag a 400 lb creature covered in spikes and poisonous barbs back to base camp?
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Pig_catapult
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I'd say, allow Pokéballs, but make the ambient weirdness of the island negatively affect them. The opening mechanism jams at the absolute worst times, if you're lucky enough to be able to make it stay shut at all. Make them the sort of thing you 'd only want to use when you really, really have to.
Edited by Pig_catapult, Mar 11 2010, 04:44:20 PM.
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Akari
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get some
!!! I really like Piffy's idea. A lot. It should still provide the asshat fall out for game start AND work around the obvious issues with no pokeballs (as Jean pointed out).

On that note:
I figure if its already KO'd, no one would really want anything with it unless your enemy wanted to make a manpurse out of your Pikachu's hide- or if they actually wanted to TAKE your Pokémon, which could lead to some awesome threading.

If you had an ally or a manly Pokémon, god knows with all those awesome Pokémon super powers you could find a way to drag the body somewhere safe if need be. Of course, thats just assuming a game wide condition.

It shouldn't take too long for a Pokémon to come around, so maybe you just limit yourself to the area for that amount of time. Naturally, there should be some sort of repercussion for getting your ass kicked. That always seemed to be lacking in Pokémon RPGs, mostly because no one ever got COMPLETELY annihilated, and if they did run out of Pokémon, it was sort of like "...oh". I think this would be a fun aspect to mess with, since I know how brutal some of us like to be.

IDK if theres going to be trainer combat or weapons of any kind but this would be a perfect way to utilise them. In old!thea I vaguely remember weapons- there wasn't really a good use when you had 15 feet tall, 400 pound monsters fighting for you. But if you actually had to stand your ground as a trainer... Sounds interesting. Weapons could actually be valuable. I assume this would rarely actually happen, since PvPing someone to trainer only would (generally) take a lot of strategy, time and probably teamwork.
Edited by Akari, Mar 11 2010, 05:13:14 PM.
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Twitch
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Eh. I think we should just leave Pokeballs as they are. As for the Pokémon limit, I'm really liking the idea of maybe three max in a party, and two in your PC. That way you'll have five total; three active and two inactive.


.::Travis Anderson::.
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Munchkinator
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Don't waste my time.
Without spoiling anything, yes, psioni, electrical, and radio interference is a major theme; Pokeballs being hella unreliable is absolutely reasonable and indeed to be expected. That said, I also sort of like the idea of there not being Pokeballs at all; some more input/thoughts would be good. Could be like Jean suggested on MSN, wherein the Pokedex/whatever acts as pokeballs - all electronic rather than physical Pokeballs, though with the same overall unreliability due to the city's field.

Brutality: torn a bit. No one likes having months of work go down the drain because SHIT SUX BRO, much less permanent character death. I prefer the general ideology of playing like you can die but objectively knowing that you won't - clear divide of OOC/IC knowledge - since that avoids the RAGEQUITTING, and frankly I'd be hella tempted to ragequit myself if Lach died from running into PlotHitlermon with no way to escape. But then, I tend to work out my characters heavily and see them as their own people, rather than just another window through which to experience the world; YMMV.

So, -for now- the official ruling - short of a better idea - is as follows:

SO LONG AS you play like you can die, you probably won't. if you start playing like you know that, you open yourself up to the possibility. essentially, sort of a bond of faith between player and site - if they play by the rules, we'll bend them a little in the character's favor. they break the bond, eh, fuck them - we don't have to be nice


Pokelimit: I'm down with either a 3/1 or 3/2 dispersion, though I prefer 3/1 for the simple reason that I think that the PC shouldn't be used for much other than trading and temporary short-term storage; the more Pokemon you can have, the more likely you are to just catch whatever until you fill it up, rather than having to carefully rationalize each catch. Also, having to physically deposit Pokemon into the PC back at Haven rather than doing it wirelessly - if you have 3 Pokemon and want to catch one, FUCK YOU NOISE GO PUT SHIT BACK IN PC BOY. Dunno, might be a bit overkill, but I don't like the idea of wireless ANYTHING actually working. Consistently, at least.

Still need significant discussion about battle systems and shit.

As for the setting, fleshed out a bit with some minor unescapable spoilers:
  • People arrive in UnnamedCity(Exire?) by airlift. Only by airlift - helicopter, to be precise, from the company promoting the tournament. They arrive at Haven, the only section of the entire city that never changes, at the beginning of their narrative or very shortly before. Immediately upon landing, everyone gets a minor headache - nothing serious, not mind-blowing agony or anything, just a bit of a twinge that fades out pretty quickly with no (obvious...) long-term effects. No mind control, brains exploding, no sudden psychic powers, just a bit of a headache.

  • The city itself I'm thinking of as actually an odd stark off-white; sorta like the newish alternate theme, it's very much an unusual coloration, but pretty much EVERYTHING obviously artificial is colored that - trees, wildlife, etc are obviously immune. The overall aesthetic is very unnatural though. Actual movement varies between areas; Labyrinth is literally constant, with floors and ceilings effectively acting as more of a solid liquid, since they can flow however the fuck they feel like, fuck gravity, and nothing is especially permanent. Expect a lot of scrambling as the room turns into a pit or a tower. Much of the early city is fairly permanent; it very slightly shifts to stay (mostly) dust and wear-free, streets always look pristine each morning, dust doesn't really settle, despite lack of cleaning. Elsewhere it can be more drastic; city can rebuild just about any damage overnight.

  • Night is not a good time to be out and about. Pokemon tend to go berserk, wild Pokemon vary from berserk to completely batshit loco insane, other things come out to play. Haven is the only reasonably-safe place, but also the site of nightly attacks by various things. Corpses are always gone by morning. There's a small police force, or at least professional trainers - effectively mercenaries - hired to keep the area from being overrun, but you get used to sleeping to the sound of vicious battles and a lot of blood, though all evidence is gone by morning. Trainers take turns helping with sentry duty at night, so it isn't - usually - actually dangerous for people in the housing area, but still not a pleasant dynamic.

  • The company that provides trainers has advertised the island as a combination tournament and exploration location; they're a front organization for [REDACTED], who [REDACTED] the entire [REDACTED] and are not Team Rocket god dammit, and you can quote me on that. Or Arachnos specifically - <3 the shitballs out of Arachnos, but they're more or less settled on ANOTHER DIMENSION'S ALTHEA. We'll have to see about android characters, though I'm leaning against it - I think it's reasonable to suspect that the company would generally look for healthy young trainers, male or female being irrelevant though late-teens, early-twenties being preferable, with older trainers rare (but perfectly legal, just not AS common) and younger trainers probably banned, though exact age requirements are up in the air; I'd say 16 personally, though 15 or 18 could work. That does have plot significance behind it but NO I'M NOT SHARING GO DIE. Tournament vs survival of the fittest: combination, but it's obviously not advertised as YOU LOSE, YOU DIE, and it doesn't work that way; the actual reasoning behind the tournament is [REDACTED] because [REDACTED], but it's as much about the journey to the top as who actually wins... because you're all winners. And by winners I mean losers. WAIT SPOILERS.

  • Canon Pokemon universe. Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh. No United States, no Soviet Union or modern day Russia. No Alternia, Akaiyo, etc; might make an exception for Althea-continent, but probably not. Fakemon on a case by case basis; we don't strictly -need- sprites so they're viable, but I think that we need to ease into them a bit if anything. Not that they're not allowed; merely that any fakemon will be a plot point by themselves (wtf why are there new Pokemon here? Did they evolve, or were they put here? Why does this one look like Cthulhu? ...Wait, fuck.). The city is the island; whether it's actually attached to the sea floor or not, or if not, what it's actually attached to, is plot-ey and irrelevant from a trainer's perspective; it's out in the middle of the ocean, couple hundred miles from the nearest area. Absolutely no records of its existence anywhere; public never even knew it existed until the last few weeks, though it's obviously been around longer - how long, and for what purpose, is plot point.

  • Overall setting is sort of a combination of normal Pokemon/survival horror/TTGL depending on where you are and what you're doing. I'm hesitant to fuck up the general Pokemon theme too much, and I mean shit isn't SURVIVAL HORROR FIGHT NEMESIS, GET ROCKET LAUNCHER, SAVE WORLD FROM ZOMBIES - it's still Pokemon, the tournament and just general training is a huge part, and while the plot may very well have survival horror themes, you can just train and do Pokemon stuff and PvP for high ranking. You're still doing what you're supposed to like good little guinea pigs, but suffice to say that there is some dank ass shit going on. Thousands - millions - of people don't disappear without a trace for no goddamn reason, assuming there were people on the city in the first place...
    Edited by Munchkinator, Mar 11 2010, 08:39:46 PM.
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Blaze
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Exeter
Mar 11 2010, 11:10:02 AM
And not letting one stupid Pokémon like a Rattata learn a billion moves.
I consider this Pokémon RACISM

Anyway, I think the "few Pokémon" system is very nice. But 3 is... too less. Make it 5. And make the accomplishments for getting 5 slots harder to reach. Accomplish X to get 3, accomplish 5X to get 4 and 10X to get 5, perhaps. Making it difficult to acquire makes sure that only the ones who really put in a lot of effort actually get the 5 slots. Maybe like put to use a total of Y XP on your 3 Pokémon to get the additive ability of having 4 in your hand.

I don't know, three just seems... too little to me. Where does the trainer go for variety?
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Exer
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YOUR SOUL. NOW!
Blaze
Mar 11 2010, 11:06:44 PM
Exeter
Mar 11 2010, 11:10:02 AM
And not letting one stupid Pokémon like a Rattata learn a billion moves.
I consider this Pokémon RACISM

Anyway, I think the "few Pokémon" system is very nice. But 3 is... too less. Make it 5. And make the accomplishments for getting 5 slots harder to reach. Accomplish X to get 3, accomplish 5X to get 4 and 10X to get 5, perhaps. Making it difficult to acquire makes sure that only the ones who really put in a lot of effort actually get the 5 slots. Maybe like put to use a total of Y XP on your 3 Pokémon to get the additive ability of having 4 in your hand.

I don't know, three just seems... too little to me. Where does the trainer go for variety?
I agreeee with this a lot.
I feel like 3 is too little, but 3/2 is perfect.
Xx-exer-xX
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Jeanesse
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K I S S with a fist
Keep in mind how annoyingly dumb it will be to keep track of who HAS actually done something X times, won Y times etc. One cap that is one cap is easy, fair, and universal. The point isn't to have 6 Pokémon, or even 3 Pokémon. It's to survive. Having MORE Pokémon is MORE liability.
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Munchkinator
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Don't waste my time.
Thank you, Jean, for bringing that cap point up. The original idea was to have to unlock higher cap(s), but that was ditched in favor of simplicity - there'll already be enough complexity in the new profile setup accounting for enhanced Pokemon stuff, I really don't want to add too many things to keep track of.
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Munchkinator
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Don't waste my time.
Also, I would like to point out that variety =/= strategy. Strategy is all about making intelligent, effective use of limited assets, whether it be three Pokemon or six. Limiting resources - in this case, Pokemon - doesn't limit strategy, but it does make you get more use out of each one. More Pokemon lets you approach each battle with a different Pokemon; fewer Pokemon generally helps build and develop a few, incidentally inducing much faster overall growth - only leveling 1-3 Pokemon is a fuckton faster than trying to level 6+. Just sayin'.
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Blaze
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Munch
Mar 12 2010, 12:15:47 AM
Also, I would like to point out that variety =/= strategy. Strategy is all about making intelligent, effective use of limited assets, whether it be three Pokémon or six. Limiting resources - in this case, Pokémon - doesn't limit strategy, but it does make you get more use out of each one. More Pokémon lets you approach each battle with a different Pokémon; fewer Pokémon generally helps build and develop a few, incidentally inducing much faster overall growth - only leveling 1-3 Pokémon is a fuckton faster than trying to level 6+. Just sayin'.
... You're right. Convinced.
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Munchkinator
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Don't waste my time.
Speaking of which, I would like to evoke a faster sense of growth; immediate gratification rather than "a year to get lvl 20." Granted, we might just use the rawXP system rather than levels, but the idea is the same; bits and pieces of XP more commonly rather than quite as spread out, more of a sense of Pokermanz growth. Not like level 1-50 in two battles, but to the point that you can watch and feel them leveling up or getting new moves/abilities/skills/whatever pretty regularly. Might be worthwhile to split moveXP with statXP or something. Thoughts would be appreciated; I'm tired as dicks and don't have any really decent ideas right now.

Also, would be nice to touch on EVERYTHING ELSE other than team size. Say, proposed systems, changes, etc. We can always go back and change team size if necessary or hash it out later; systems are what's keeping Althea from being open to RPing right now, and I, for one, want to get started RPing as soon as possible. Not looking to do a rush job, but RPing = good.
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Jeanesse
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NOT that levelling is the point, either. The only advancement that matters beyond all else is that of the characters themselves - of the trainers and Pokémon. Numbers are here to help us, not hinder us... better characterizations are far more likely to win based on strategy and being epic than having huge numbers. You shouldn't have to rely on huge numbers to beat someone's ass, but on smarts and everyone loving you.
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Jeanesse
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EDUT: Systems...... yeah I'm fucked with a bag of dicks.
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Pig_catapult
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Delicious cake!
I liked the way we approached stats in 4.win, personally, in the "assume that 0 = totally awesome, and everything after that is just relative" kinda way, and the option for people to agree to just freeform it, fuck the numbers. It took the focus off the stats, IMO.

As for levels, any EXP system I suggest will probably be overcomplicated, but maybe, with every level, you can learn 1 move and distribute [x] points among your stats. Alternately, every [x] XP, learn a free move in addition to getting +1 to a stat of your choice.
Edited by Pig_catapult, Mar 12 2010, 08:55:40 AM.
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